by Damozel | Amidst all the excitement over Pelosi's "extraordinary accusation that the Bush administration lied to Congress about the use of harsh interrogation techniques" that the CIA is misleading Congress about her knowledge of the Bush administration's interrogation procedures, Sen. Bob Graham has given HuffPost an interview that seems to support Pelosi's argument.
In testimony that could bolster Speaker Nancy
Pelosi's claim that the CIA misled her during briefings on detainee
interrogations, former Senator Bob Graham insisted on Thursday that he too was
kept in the dark about the use of waterboarding, and called the agency's
records on these briefings "suspect."
In an interview with the Huffington Post, the former Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman said that approximately a month ago, the CIA provided him with false information about how many times and when he was briefed on enhanced interrogations.
When this issue started to resurface I called
the appropriate people in the agency and said I would like to know the dates
from your records that briefings were held," Graham recalled. "And
they contacted me and gave me four dates -- two in April '02 and two in
September '02. Now, one of the things I do, and for which I have taken some
flack, is keep a spiral notebook of what I do throughout the day. And so I went
through my records ....I confirmed and the CIA agreed that my notes were accurate;
that three of those four dates there had been no briefing. There was only one
day that I had been briefed, which was September the 27th of 2002."
As for the one briefing he did attend, the Florida Democrat said that he had "no recollection that issues such as waterboarding were discussed." He was not, per the sensitive nature of the matters discussed, allowed to take notes at the time. But he did highlight what he considered to be pretty strong proof that the controversial technique was not discussed.
"What struck me...was the fact that in
that briefing, there were also two staff members," he said. "As you
know, the general rule is that....[for] "covert action,"
where the president...only briefs the Gang of Eight, which is the four
congressional leaders and the four intelligence committee leaders. Those
sessions are generally conducted at an executive site, primarily at the White
House itself. And they are conducted with just the authorized personnel, not
with any staff or any other member of the committee.... Which leads me to
conclude that this was not considered by the CIA to be a Gang of Eight
briefing..... And that leads
me to then believe that they didn't brief us on any of the sensitive programs
such as the waterboarding or other forms of excessive interrogation."
But after all, perhaps the CIA was telling Graham the truth "as they see it," in the manner commended by Lieberman. Reading between the lines Lieberman, that old authoritarian, thinks the CIA are as candid as a troop of Eagle Scouts and that they would not -- repeat, not -- lie to Congress. At least not regularly, or on purpose. No, the CIA almost always tell the truth...as they see it.
. Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) said today
that he "totally disagrees" with Speaker Nancy Pelosi's (D-Calif.)
assertion that the CIA regularly misleads Congress.
"No, on that specific point I totally disagree," Lieberman told MSNBC's Norah O'Donnell. "Over the 20 years I've been here, I've been briefed constantly by the CIA, and I'd say they've told me the truth as they see it." (The Hill; emphasis added).
Meanwhile, Steny Hoyer thinks the GOP are using Pelosi's role as a distraction from its own culpability.
I believe the
Speaker. … .She wasn’t in that briefing. But not withstanding that, I believe
the speaker’s assertions when she says them. … What she knew or when she knew
it -- that’s a stalking horse. That’s a distraction. We know things were done.
We know that the law – we believe – certainly – was broken, and we ought to
find out whether the law was broken. … I think she’s accurate when she says
what she said.” (Politico)
A friend who hasn't been following the argument wondered about the ramifications. Dan Balz of The Washington Post explains how her accusations against the CIA are likely to raise the stakes.
The speaker's charges about the CIA's alleged deception and her shifting accounts of what she knew and when she knew it are likely to add to calls for some kind of independent body to investigate this supercharged issue, though Obama and many members of Congress would like to avoid a wholesale unearthing of the past at a time when their plates are full with pressing concerns.
Closing the books on the George W. Bush years has proven harder than anyone imagined -- certainly harder than Obama hoped. The intensifying argument over what the CIA told Pelosi and when comes on top of the debate over whether any Bush administration officials should face legal action for their roles in authorizing or implementing the interrogation policies and whether a national commission is needed to get to the truth.
To me, the GOP's attempt to spin this into an argument that all Democrats by extension are equally implicated in the Bush administration's torture policies is too ludicrous even to mock very much, though I appreciate that Pelosi's possible awareness has given the usual talking heads the opportunity to resurrect that Nixon era cliche and to ask intently: "What did Pelosi know and when did she know it?" That one never gets old, does it?
But anything that forces the powers that be to look into the Bush administration's "harsh interrogation techniques" -- including who authorized what and when -- is a good thing, as far as I'm concerned. If it turns out Pelosi is implicated, then so be it. If it turns out that any or all Dems are implicated, ditto.
As for the CIA and what they said and did as regards the Gang of Eight, let's just say that for once I agree with Joe Lieberman: the CIA is doubtless telling the truth as they see it. Which is of course different from just telling the truth. And my guess is that Pelosi is doing the same.
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Yeah, I find it sort of ridiculous that the right is so intent on pointing at Pelosi, as if her guilt would somehow mean everything cancels out and nobody should be punished. That's not how things (are supposed to?) work.
The media and the major parties are so focused on the partisan nature of their debate that they can't seem to recognize that this is about the rule of law. If Pelosi goes down with the Bushies, very few people who actually care about torture and the rule of law will shed a tear about that.
This was eloquently addressed in a comment on Glenn Greenwald's blog:
http://letters.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/05/08/torture/permalink/6930e437d230539d669451828bc4d07d.html
Posted by: Adam | May 15, 2009 at 12:13 PM