by Teh Nutroots | Oh, doggone, gosh darn it, that Palin sure as heck has a way with words. Obama is "palling around with terrorists!" Like all Palin's folksy Palinisms, that takes me back...to, say, the mid-sixties to early seventies, which is approximately the time when Mr. William Ayers was in his Weatherman phase. Man, that was a long time ago. She's worried that Obama, who---like many, many other people---has crossed paths withWilliam Ayers might not love America as much as she does.
Obama, who was a child at the time, has in more recent years served on boards with Ayers, an education reformer now. And, while opponents have tried to suggest that Obama's association with the one-time radical is a problem, Obama and others have denounced the past activities of Ayers while praising his recent work. (The Swamp)
Don't believe me? Ask The New York Times.
In the mid-1990s, the Alaskan Independence Party was experiencing a boom of sorts. A governor had been elected on its ticket in 1990, when the party was not even a decade old. And membership was swelling.
Among the new recruits was Todd Palin, whose wife, Sarah, would later become governor of Alaska. The Palins attended the party’s convention in their hometown, Wasilla, in 1994, according to party officials, where the party called for a revote on statehood and a draft constitution for an independent Republic of Alaska. Mr. Palin joined the party.
Ms. Palin remained a Republican and never joined the Alaskan Independence Party, but returned to its convention in 2006 to speak as candidate for governor. After she had been elected, she recorded a video greeting that was played at the party convention this year. “Good luck on a successful and inspiring convention,” she said. “Keep up the good work, and God bless you.”
Now that she is the Republican nominee for vice president — for a campaign whose motto is “Country first” — the couple’s interaction with the Alaskan Independence Party has gotten attention because of its reputation as a secessionist group... (NYT)
But maybe, I hear you say, the Alaskan Separatists love America, despite some of them wanting to leave it? Maybe.
Let's delve a bit further into this intriguing independence movement. Damozel collected quite a lot of the bits a month or so ago. We thought it was mildly entertaining, back before the fair Sarah started lobbing brickbats at our candidate.
Here's a bit more from Ms. Clark, the Chair of the AIP (from Jake Tapper's September 1 piece.)
"We are a state's rights party," says Clark, a self-employed goldminer. The AIP has "a plank that challenges the legality of the Alaskan statehood vote as illegal and in violation of United Nations charter and international law."
She says it's not accurate to describe the party as secessionist -- they just want a vote, she says, adding that the members of the AIP hold different opinions on what Alaska should be.
"My own separate opinion as an individual is that we should be an independent nation," Clark says. Others in the AIP "believe that being a commonwealth would be a good avenue to follow." Some advocate statehood -- but a fuller statehood than exists now.
She doesn't know what Palin's position was.
"It never came up in conversation," Clark recalls. "But ...our platform was right under her nose." (Jake Tapper)
Secession, eh? In other words, this party of which TODD PALIN WAS RECENTLY A MEMBER contains a "plank" which is all about seceding from America, because---no doubt---the secessionists who Todd was hanging out with love it so darn much!
The Alaskan Independence Party, founded in 1978, initially promoted "the Alaskan independence movement." But now, according to its website, "its primary goal is merely a vote on secession."(the L.A. Times)
Not, mind you, that they all want to actually secede. They just want the rest of us to concede it has the right to vote and then they'll vote just for the heck of it!
How much does the AIP love America? This is from their website as it appeared on September 1 and as it appears today.
The Alaskan Independence Party can be summed up in just two words:
ALASKA FIRST!
Until we as Alaskans receive our Ultimate Goal, the AIP will continue to strive to make Alaska a better place to live with less government interference in our everyday lives.
The Alaskan Independence Party's goal is the vote we were entitled to in 1958, one choice from among the following four alternatives:
1) Remain a Territory.
2) Become a separate and Independent Nation
3) Accept Commonwealth status.
4) Become a State.
The call for this vote is in furtherance of the dream of the Alaskan Independence Party's founding father, Joe Vogler, which was for Alaskans to achieve independence under a minimal government, fully responsive to the people, promoting a peaceful and lawful means of resolving differences.
Oh yes, about their founding father. The L.A. Times has more:
I'm an Alaskan, not an American," Vogler is quoted as saying elsewhere on the party’s website. "I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."...
Leaders of the party say many of its 13,681 registered members have joined out of frustration over restrictions that the federal government has placed on the use of its vast land holdings in Alaska. Beyond the secession vote, the party also advocates gun rights, home schooling and abolition of property taxes.
And that ain't all. Their founding father, separatist Joe Vogler vanished in 1993: His remains were discovered in October of 1994. From The New York Times:
The blue tarp and duct tape in which the remains were wrapped, officials said, matched a description given by a convicted thief, Manfred West, who confessed last summer that he had killed Mr. Vogler in a plastic-explosives sale gone bad and had then buried him.
TPM filled in some background on the founding father of the AIP.
The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government," Vogler said in the interview, in which he talked extensively about his desire for Alaskan secession, the key goal of the AIP.
"And I won't be buried under their damn flag," Vogler continued in the interview, which also touched on his disappointment with the American judicial system. "I'll be buried in Dawson. And when Alaska is an independent nation they can bring my bones home."
At another point, Volger advocated renouncing allegiance to the United States. In the course of denouncing Federal regulation over land, he said:
"And then you get mad. And you say, the hell with them. And you renounce allegiance, and you pledge your efforts, your effects, your honor, your life to Alaska."
How do we know that Palin isn't secretly plotting to help the secessionists in return for Ted Stevens-style payback? How? Maybe it's all a VAST ALASKAN CONSPIRACY.
Has anyone looked into this?
Yep. Marc Ambinder is on it!
Todd Palin, a former member of the Alaska Independence Party, might well have seen America unlike his wife did -- that is, an America that one can secede from. He was comfortable belonging to and being associated with a political party whose founder seemed to delight in denouncing the principles that hold our union together.
Now -- maybe that's not fair. Maybe Todd Palin didn't believe in all of the principles the AIP espoused... indeed, the AIP seems to be a bit of a cultural relic in Alaska, a quirky old friend. A difference may be that many professional conservatives genuinely believe that Obama's association with William Ayers -- more accurately, he refusal NOT to associate with him -- is a genuine reflection of Obama's poor judgment, whereas no one really cares about why Sarah Palin stayed married to her husband. He seems like a good guy, a loving father, hard to find in a chaotic world, and that she didn't dump him because he associated with some dum-dum secessionists is probably a sign of good judgment.....[Its] a laughable comparison," says Tracey Schmitt, Palin's spokesperson. "Bill Ayers was a founding member of the group that bombed the US capitol and the Pentagon."
On the other hand, there is very little evidence that Ayers's radical worldview ever influenced anything Barack Obama did, said or thought -- indeed, there is evidence of the opposite -- whereas one can easily assume that a husband and wife influence each other's beliefs quite often. [More]
The Daily Shocker has this to say:
The Alaska Independence Party, a secessionist group which her husband was a 7 year member of, is a similar situation [to the Ayers case]. Is it relevant? Sure. Is it damning? When you look into it, it’s the same as the Ayers case. There’s associations, handshakes and smiles, but is Palin and her husband secessionists? I don’t think you can make that case. But once you start trying to make the case on Obama against Ayers, you look at the Palins and the AIP, and you realize it’s the same thing. If Palin is going to claim Obama pals around with terrorists, she has to admit that her husband was a member of a secessionist group. Her past diffuses her argument.
[A]ny credibility she has on the attack issues against Obama are undermined by her own past. Both she and McCain have pastor problems, similar to Rev. Wright. She has an abuse of power scandal she’s neck deep in. So any attempts by her to attack Obama on issues that have already seen the light of day and been part of surge of media coverage, open the door to her own dealings, and her own past. The media is dying to tell a Sarah Palin story, and it’s out there. It’s a story of abuse of power, of religious zealotry, of supposed book banning, of secessionist party meetings. None of this has been part of a media feeding frenzy, and if it starts to leak out, Palin will find herself in one quickly.
The Anonymous Liberal further develops this point:
I know this association game only works one way, but let's imagine for a moment that Republicans actually held themselves to the same standards.
In light of Palin's past association with the Alaskan Independence Party, for instance, couldn't she just as easily (and more fairly) be accused of "palling around with separatists"? Indeed, her husband's a card-carrying member of that party, so she could even be said to be "sleeping with separatists."
And as for John McCain, if we're going to talk about past associations, let's compare Bill Ayers with Charles Keating. Ayres is an english professor who last engaged in illegal activities when Obama was 8 years old. His association with Obama is tenuous at best. They live in the same neighborhood and have served together on a few charitable boards. There is exactly zero evidence that Obama shares any of Ayres' radical views (and not much evidence that Ayres still does either).
Charles Keating is a convicted felon who swindled tens of thousands of people--mostly elderly--out of their life savings and cost the federal government billions of dollars. McCain and Keating were not mere acquaintances (like Obama and Ayres), but had a close personal relationship. Keating befriended McCain in 1981 and helped him launch his political career. He contributed $112,000 to McCain's first two congressional campaigns. While in Congress, McCain took nine trips to the Bahamas with Keating on Keating's dime. He didn't report any of these trips as he was supposed to under congressional rules. And most importantly, when Keating's savings and loan was under federal investigation, McCain and four other Senators went to bat for him and held highly improper meetings with federal regulators. [More...]
So maybe the Doofus ticket ought to hold back on heaving stones. But they won't because: Doofus Ticket.
On the other hand, maybe we shouldn't try to judge others based on their past associates without hard evidence that they condoned the actions of those associates. Maybe we shouldn't assume that the fact Obama knows Ayers doesn't mean he'll soon be selling us out to the Weatherman (who no longer exist anyway)----and that the fact that Sarah knows, well, Todd, doesn't mean she's planning to become president with the express intention of conniving at making it independent so she can become its Queen.
Maybe we should just mumble "strange bedfellows" and get on with voting for the ticket which actually seems to have ideas for how to solve the mess that we're currently in thanks to the Doofus Ticket's party.
Ron Chusid says:
Hopefully today’s article in The New York Times puts an end to the Ayers smears against Obama. The article reviews the association between Ayers and Obama, or as Steve Benen puts it, Obama And Some Guy He Barely Knows. As the title of The New York Times article reports, the two have “crossed paths.” They found that “the two men do not appear to have been close. Nor has Mr. Obama ever expressed sympathy for the radical views and actions of Mr. Ayers, whom he has called ’somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago when I was 8.’”
TBogg says:
Why does Sarah Palin hate America?
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Todd Palin when talking with Greta VanSustern compared Alaskan families to American families, not as a subset but as a different entity entirely. Todd still doesn't think of Alaska as part of America.
From the Fox transcript:
PALIN: I think they look at us as another Alaska family that adapts to job situations and enjoys Alaska, so they can relate to us. You know, we're just another family that, you know, juggles kids' busy schedules, juggles jobs, and still has fun doing all that stuff. And so, you know, there's lots of Alaska families that do that and there's a lot of American families that do the same.
Its the type of statement that you wouldn't pay any attention to if you didn't know his history as a secessionist. Then it takes on a whole new meaning. He's used to speaking of Alaskans as being other than Americans.
Posted by: esther clark | October 05, 2008 at 04:10 AM
Todd Palin when talking with Greta VanSustern compared Alaskan families to American families, not as a subset but as a different entity entirely. Todd still doesn't think of Alaska as part of America.
From the Fox transcript:
PALIN: I think they look at us as another Alaska family that adapts to job situations and enjoys Alaska, so they can relate to us. You know, we're just another family that, you know, juggles kids' busy schedules, juggles jobs, and still has fun doing all that stuff. And so, you know, there's lots of Alaska families that do that and there's a lot of American families that do the same.
Its the type of statement that you wouldn't pay any attention to if you didn't know his history as a secessionist. Then it takes on a whole new meaning. He's used to speaking of Alaskans as being other than Americans.
Posted by: esther clark | October 05, 2008 at 04:11 AM
Definitely time to dust off this potent issue. Democrats should not give up any ground to John McSame on character issues especially with his and Sarah's VERY shadowy connections. America needs to know about her dubious patriotism.
Posted by: DCdallas | October 05, 2008 at 11:03 AM
I have to wonder about McCain's judgment in picking her. Nobody in his campaign even paused to wonder if Todd's affiliation with this group might not be viewed as just a wee bit unpatriotic? Maybe they knew that a sparkly rhinestone flag brooch on Sarah's lovely chest is all their base really needs for reassurance.
Posted by: Rebecca | October 05, 2008 at 11:14 AM
Every day I read or hear any more about Sarah Palin I'm insulted further! How dare McSame and the once respectable Republican party insult the intelligence of the American woman this way! What the hell makes them think we women are so stupid and vapid that we'll rally around and vote for this phony, terminally folksy woman just because we have the same physical plumbing? Yes, I have always said we'd most likely elect a person of color before we'd elect a woman president, and yes I'm somewhat disappointed we cannot elect a woman this time, but I'm not so shallow and unthinking that I'd vote for THIS woman under any circumstances. And as for her "boss", what the heck ever happened to the real John McCain? I used to look at him as a good man, the one Republican who was his own person. He is now living proof that one can want something TOO much! He has sold his soul, his mind, his pride, his valor, his very individuality to the right-wingnuts that make up the sad Republican party we see today. Good God, we are NOT all JoeSixpack (not that I don't like an occasional beer) and a great many of us are tired of being talked down to by the likes of Sarah (you betcha)Palin. It is time for Americans with brains to stand up! Stop the dumbing down of the country we love! Get out there and vote! Vote with your brain, your intelligence and refuse to vote on sound bites, show the world Americans can think for themselves after all!
Posted by: Mary Keeley | October 05, 2008 at 02:50 PM
Sarah Palin is a just a new take on an old yarn; there is nothing to her. I suppose John McCain decided he needed a good hutsler and looked around to see who had gotten the furthest on the least qualifications and found Palin up there in Alaska, ordering people around, firing whoever she pleased and burning books at her pleasure and he got a bid idea that she could be used to attack Obama. A person who didn't have any value for credibility, honesty, character or any of the things that may stop anyone else from being completely exploited at the McCain campaign's pleasure. Well, she has done her job and we've just been held up at gunpoint for 700 billion dollars by a thug; so I don't really think anyone is too impressed with Ms. Palin's rhetoric about now.
Posted by: Mary Kate | October 05, 2008 at 08:27 PM
So just what do we imagine Joe Vogler planned to do with the pastic explosives ?Seems as if Mr Palin has aligned himself with a party whose founder may have been making some plans for bombing something?
Posted by: mommom | October 06, 2008 at 08:19 PM
Sarah Palin says Obama palls with domestic terrorists but guess what:
She, Sarah Palin sleeps with one. Todd Palin - a Secessionist and card carrying member of the Alaska Independent Party. Shame on McCain for not picking a Republican for VP. Why won't McCain lose when Sarah is hurting rather than helping his Campaign. Her debate performance was shameful trying to seduce Joe Biden by winking and winking and winking. Americans have seen that as President of the United States should anything happen to where the unthinkable happens and their ticket win, that she could embarrass the nation by her public or diplomatic conduct and may even elope with a foreign Head of State. The way to save America is to vote the Obama/Biden ticket.
Posted by: Tony Kings | October 07, 2008 at 11:43 AM