by Nicholas | Discussing some economic policy difference or other, Obama said to McCain, " "The problem is you're using a hatchet where you need a scalpel." That's a good metaphor for their different approaches. My wife had a different one. According to her, the debate sounded like this:
McCain: Woof Woof Grrrrrr Senator Obama Woof Woof Woof and doesn't understand that Woof Woof Woof Snarrrrrrl SNAP SNAP Grrrrrr Woof
Obama: Senator McCain is right about Wonk Wonk Wonk, but as Senator McCain knows very well Wonk Wonk Wonk Wonk Wonk
She calls it a draw; I'm giving it to Obama---though only just.
One might argue that he overdid the well-known technique of conceding a point here and there to your opponent and following it up with a "....but," judging by this McCain ad. He might have started too many sentences with the phrase "Senator McCain is right."
CNN has a summary of the main points here.
The big policy news: McCain floated an across-the-board spending freeze (with a few exceptions).
McCain did not filter himself, letting his frustration and contempt for Obama show; he wouldn't let himself look at the challenger.... Over and over, he adopted the pose of an impatient school teacher: Obama "doesn't understand" or Obama "is naïve."
Obama was a cool cat throughout - although I am reliably informed that GOP spinners are claiming the exact opposite....
The press will probably conclude that McCain did not fundamentally change impressions tonight. And that Obama held his own.
Steve Benen thought Obama won. He also comments on McCain's unabashed rudeness:
I was a little surprised at the contempt McCain showed for Obama, refusing to even look at Obama during the debate. It was the height of arrogance -- McCain's not-so-subtle message was that he didn't even want to be on the same stage with his rival. I lost count of how many times he said Obama "doesn't understand" an issue, even when it was obvious that it was McCain who was confused....
Like I said, I'll have more in the morning, but if I were giving letter grades, I'd say Obama deserves an A-, while McCain might get a generous B. How about you?
According to Ambinder, CBS undecideds gave it to Obama, by a substantial margin.
40% of uncommitted voters who watched the debate tonight thought Barack Obama was the winner. 22% thought John McCain won. 38% saw it as a draw.
68% of these voters think Obama would make the right decision
about the economy. 41% think McCain would.49% of these voters think Obama would make the right decisions about Iraq. 55% think McCain would. (Marc Ambinder)
As you see, quite a few of them agree with my wife---almost as many as thought Obama carried the day.
Damozel was bothered by Obama's hawkishness. After seven years in this country, I tend to agree with Bill Maher (on tonight's Real Time) that if you're the Democrat, you've got to be for a war or any war. Cernig---after listing Obama's hawking-points---tentatively gives it to McCain:
[Obama]'s never going to be seen as hawkish enough by Republicans or hawk independents and he's just disillusioned progressive doves who had talked themselves into believing he was anything other than an Albright Hawk to begin with. "Blinky" McCain, I think, will be seen by most voters as having won this debate. He'll have done so by out-warmongering Obama, by sticking to his soundbites more and by being more wrong but sure and consistent about it rather than Obama being right.
Damozel was bothered that McCain dwelt so much on earmarks---and specifically, Obama's---and that Obama never responded by pointing out Sarah Palin's appetite as governor and mayor for earmarks to fund programs that would sound at least as stupid to the public as the "DNA testing for bears in Montana" earmark (not one of Obama's, incidentally) did to McCain.
In other news, Kissinger is allegedly annoyed that Obama "misquoted" him. From the Weekly Standard:
"Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level. My views on this issue are entirely compatible with the views of my friend Senator John McCain. We do not agree on everything, but we do agree that any negotiations with Iran must be geared to reality."
Aha! But Obama specifically stated that he was not arguing that the talks should be "at the presidential level." At least that's what I heard. Sadly, he sort of muttered it in passing on to the next point. But I am pretty sure he said it. Yes? No? I am not getting paid for this, so I am not going to watch the debate again to find out. Correct me if I'm wrong.
My favorite bit was the "battle of the bracelets." Obama definitively won that round, even though the YouTube footage I've seen cuts out too soon to show why.
You definitely had to be there to get the full impact of Obama's response to John McCain's angry, emotional reiteration of that old classic, "We must spill more American blood to justify the American blood already spilled," citing a bracelet given to him by the mother of one of Iraq's dad. To which Obama replies, "I've got a bracelet too." His was from a mother who wanted him to do whatever was necessary to prevent other mothers from losing their sons.
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Hmm, I did not view the lack of McCain looking at Obama as contempt...But saw it as lack of confidence~ in himself! I think Obama won the debate on all points.
His ability to give credit where credit is due in saying "SENATOR McCAIN is right" only gives him more elegance and CLOUT and evidence of diplomacy EVER SO Needed in the WHITE HOUSE TODAY..THUMBS UP AND KUDO'S to OBAMA for changing the "NANNER NANNER BOO BOO" So called HAWKING points~ touchdown! ~score! of who got the most JABS IN.
I don't think people heard the same debate I HEARD!
This is a serious issue people. We are in a SERIOUS SERIOUS predicament. We need a scalpel...NOT A Hatchet, and it is time for some surgery in WASHINGTON. NO more blood-letting to solve the problems.
For me, this campaign (since BIDEN came on board) is a NO BRAINER. OBAMA-BIDEN or you are stupid and hypnotized by BLOOD and sentiment and the good old boys.
However, next week is sure to be most satisfying ...YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME!! I wonder what Palin is gonna wear?
Posted by: barbara | September 27, 2008 at 12:32 PM
Nicholas: I thought Obama’s “hatchet-Scalpel” analogy was the best statement of the night. I’m surprised that its not getting more sound-bite airplay. It was short, profound, fresh AND timely. Honorable Mention goes to Obama’s “I have a bracelet too” comment, the “you said (fill in the blank), but you were wrong!” sequence and the (and I’m paraphrasing) ”coming from someone who want to annihilate N. Korea and makes up songs about bombing Iran, I don’t know if that is a credible argument.” I wouldn’t be a fair critic if I didn’t say that McCain’s best quip was the “and I don’t even have a seal yet” comment. At least it made me laugh.
I also don’t think that commentators have taken into account the fact that whenever Obama said that McCain was right, he did so in regards to issues on which they BOTH agree, and that McCain was allowed to answer FIRST (mostly because of the moderated order of questioning). Conversely, McCain, when answering identical questions as Obama, instead of acknowledging where he agreed with what Obama just said, McCain chose to just regurgitate Obama’s statements and act like he was the first to say them. I personally like Obama's approach better. Its more diplomatic and statesman-like. It also says that you are not afraid to acknowledge where you and your adversary may agree.
Posted by: Kaleidoscope | September 28, 2008 at 01:30 AM
Well, I watched the debate. Palin was focused and 'Charming' and a bit tad way too HOCKEY MOMMISH for me... and PUHLEEZE the holding baby and patting baby back after the Debate was SOOOOO ~ " SEE AMERICA" I am just like YOU AVERAGE PEOPLE. I was waiting for her to "change" the babies diaper and ask" can I call ya JOE' to hand her the wet-nap and powder for the baby's hinney. I just see right through the manipulative MAVERICK MANUEVER OF SENTIMENTALISM with that move.. GIMME A BREAK. ARGHHH..
Let's get serious folks..COME ON NOW. We do need a" change" in the WHITE HOUSE.. OBAMA AND BIDEN..will bring the change!
Posted by: barbara | October 03, 2008 at 01:32 PM
Well, I watched the debate. Palin was focused and 'Charming' and a bit tad way too HOCKEY MOMMISH for me... and PUHLEEZE the holding baby and patting baby back after the Debate was SOOOOO ~ " SEE AMERICA" I am just like YOU AVERAGE PEOPLE. I was waiting for her to "change" the babies diaper and ask" can I call ya JOE' to hand her the wet-nap and powder for the baby's hinney. I just see right through the manipulative MAVERICK MANUEVER OF SENTIMENTALISM with that move.. GIMME A BREAK. ARGHHH..
Let's get serious folks..COME ON NOW. We do need a" change" in the WHITE HOUSE.. OBAMA AND BIDEN..will bring the change!
Posted by: barbara | October 03, 2008 at 01:34 PM
A lot of the time marriage can feel like a debate too. Eventually this can wear on a person, and their feelings can change. Divorce is becoming more prevalent these days, and it pays to have an experienced lawyer in your corner during the tough time.
Posted by: New Jersey Divorce Attorney | November 15, 2010 at 01:33 PM