The Difference Between Obama & McCain on Iraq: When Can Withdrawals Begin?

by Damozel:  Here's the difference as I understand it between Obama's Iraq commitment and McCain's:  Obama thinks that most conditions have been met for us to begin troop withdrawals and believes that withdrawals should progress as quickly as 'conditions on the ground' permit (which is what he said).  The 16 month deadline is a 'best guess.'   McCain isn't willing to begin till 'conditions on the ground' permit AND we can do it 'with victory and honor,' i.e., with all those interested others (think:  government contractors) satisfied with the arrangement. Big difference, in other words. 

To me, the pressing question at present isn't when we can be out, but when we can begin.  McCain's camp repeatedly tries to blur this question. We all know already that changed conditions might cause delays. Only an idiot would think 16 months is a firm timetable.  But what specific conditions does McCain think must be met before we can START?

As Andrew Sullivan suggests, this is the question that the McCain camp doesn't want to answer.  McCain doesn't seem prepared to concede this.    Are we nearly there yet?  And if we're not there, what specific concrete events must occur before we can leave?  Don't tell me 'victory and honor.'  Tell me specifically Mr. McCain what has to happen before you would concede that troop withdrawals can start. 

Via TPM, Randy Scheunemann, McCain's foreign policy adviser says in response to the kerfuffle over PM Maliki's statement about Iraq withdrawal:

"The difference between John McCain and Barack Obama is that Barack Obama advocates an unconditional withdrawal that ignores the facts on the ground and the advice of our top military commanders. John McCain believes withdrawal must be based on conditions on the ground. Prime Minister Maliki has repeatedly affirmed the same view, and did so again today. Timing is not as important as whether we leave with victory and honor, which is of no apparent concern to Barack Obama. The fundamental truth remains that Senator McCain was right about the surge and Senator Obama was wrong. We would not be in the position to discuss a responsible withdrawal today if Senator Obama's views had prevailed.

Here's Andrew Sullivan's take on the McCain camp's 'muddled' response.

While Scheunemann paints Obama as committed to a fixed timetable and indifferent to the consequences of pulling out of Iraq, in reality Obama has consistently said conditions on the ground would inform his timeline for withdrawal. McCain may be able to argue he was right about the surge, but Obama can argue he was right about the war. Scheunemann seems to acknowledge that we're in a position to "discuss a responsible withdrawal," but he also says that "John McCain believes withdrawal must be based on conditions on the ground." If we're in a position to discuss a responsible withdrawal, doesn't that mean those conditions have largely been met?

Here's why I don't think McCain wants to give a clear answer (also via TPM).  This is from April 8. 

It seemed pretty clear at the time that McCain does have in the back of his mind some sort of long-term occupation (which is what I have to assume his spokesman now means by 'victory' and 'honor.')   

The rub here is this: McCain does not want to leave Iraq. Period. He wants tens of thousands of troops to stay in Iraq permanently. He made a big point of this during the primaries when it was politically advantageous to do so. And he followed up with a qualifier explaining that it's okay because our occupation of Iraq will soon be like our presence in Germany and Japan where nobody gets killed.

Agreed.  That's exactly what's at work with McCain and exactly the intention underlying his similar-to-Obama's-but-different-plan for Iraq.  Otherwise, he'd just say, 'Yes, I agree.'  But if you don't ever want to commit to begin to leave, 'conditions on the ground,' 'victory,' and 'honor,' are about as reliable a set a fallbacks as you could come up with.

Memeorandum is here.

RELATED POSTINGS

Maliki Tries to Unsay What We All Know He Said:  A Buck Naked Bloggerama

Iraqi PM Endorses Obama's 16-Month Withdrawal Plan

Bush Agrees to Timeline for Withdrawing Troops from Iraq?

More Problems in Afghanistan

Obama:  It's Time to Begin to End the War

Iraqis Unhappy with US Demand for Indefinite Presence

 

Comments

[carlos b. camacho]

When can American troops be drawn off from Iraq? McCain does not know yet, as there are political and security factors that are classified and he will know when he is in the oval office when his advicers. I think that John McCain, who has been on the verge, on the thin red line where a few have been, is fitter for the task that lies ahead.
www.stories-straight.blogspot.com

[Danny]

We heard a long time ago that Obama told people over there that he wasn't going to pull troops out. But then he said he would begin to bring them our in 16 months. "Only an idiot would think 16 months is a firm timetable."

Obama is playing a game of semanitics so that he can draw people into arguments on semantics and then they can say you are wrong and feel - well self rightoues and indignant.

Obama is the worst kind of politician - the lying kind. He will tell you only what you want to hear that day and never deliver on anything he said. Obama is W term III

[damozel]

If Obama resurrected the dead you'd still say he was just a big old faker. I realize you're angry with him----but the notion that he's not better than McCain in almost every way is just absurd. Well, unless you're a Republican. I think you're probably a Republican and just don't know it yet. In which case...you won't mind that he's undertaking to carry on all Bush's policies.

[Danny]

That's gross Damozel - Give yourself a great big pat on the back for cracking yourself up! LOL

I am voting Republican unless Hillary is tne nominee. And that won't change. So calling me a Republican for this cycle is a burden I'll have to bear. Personally I do know some Republicans that I really love and respect so it can't be all bad. At least I don't have to vote for a man who used a way to get where he is today that I detest.

My conscience will be clear - that's for certain.

[Tony]

I found this page after readiing the latest "conditions on the ground" comments from the McCain camp. Take "victory" and "honor" and tie them up with a little vague-but-sounds-specific phrase like "conditions on the ground" and you have yet another in a long list of excuses used to convince sheepish Amercians that our tax dollars are best spent on a war and on tax breaks for oil companies. Let's turn the page and choose to move beyond this nonsense.