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« The Surge: You Know It's a Success When It Stops Working | Main | Hillary and Obama to Supporters: "Don't Vote for McCain." »

March 27, 2008

Comments

Concerned

I agree with Anglachelg completely. I am very much disappointed by Obama's Carl-Rove-type-approachs, his very misleading statements about almost every issue. I feel that it is dangerous to send a person to the White House who accepted his Pastor's unpleasant statements before they have been publicly revealed. I find it almost impossible to support him consciously (if the situation warrents - which I pray does not happen). But when I think about McCain, I am really scared.

Adam

Obama is *not* trending down; in fact his numbers, vis-a-vis both Clinton and McCain, have gone up significantly since the 3/18 speech. See the lastest polls, for instance:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/105724/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Now-48-Clinton-44.aspx

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=407

You've probably seen this, but here's a good summary of the obstacles Hillary faces. I think it's very even-handed. Facts are facts.
http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=955AD30028F41567F4DB300EE7E76A41?diaryId=4798

One of the more significant insights in that piece is the bit about Obama probably having control over the credentials committee. It's extremely likely that some form of delegation will be seated, just to avoid the political fallout of the disenfranchisement talk. But it's probably going to be a symbolic 50/50 delegation or something of that sort.

Damozel, I get your anger and frustration with what you see as a very negative Obama campaign. I would point out, however, that the anger and vitriol many Obama supporters (not me, but many of them) show towards Hillary is caused by their perceptions of the way Hillary is running her campaign.

To wit, here's a (typical?) littany of perceived slights and dirty tactics by Hillary. You can quibble about the importance or accuracy of this or that entry, but it's hard to escape the notion that Hillary has gone negative as well.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/26/104555/955/7/484087

Personally, I think Hillary has been very negative for about a month now. My objection to the Obama/McCain camparisons is noted. Other than that I don't care. But given the overwhelming odds she is facing, her choice to go negative is hurting the chances of beating McCain.

And for the record, I think that Obama should be spending even less time than he already is responding to Hillary's negativity. The "tu quoque" press release yesterday from the Obama camp was simply unnecessary. I get why Obama's staffers want to respond in kind when they are attacked, but it really accomplishes less than nothing. I appreciated that Obama's economy speech today attacked McCain's policies but didn't mention Hillary even once.

Julie

Anglachelg's odyssey is pretty much the same as mine. I began this election cycle wanting either Russ Feingold or Wes Clark to run. When they did not I went with John Edwards.
I was not going to support Hillary. I like her very much, think she is brilliant and very capable, but I just thought she was too polarizing a figure and also that the cycle of Bush-Clinton-Bush followed by another Clinton was not the way to go.
However, when Edwards dropped out I had less than a week to decide who I would vote for in my state's primary. It did not take me 10 minutes to realize that up against McCain, IF WE DEMOCRATS WERE GOING TO WIN, and that is my ultimate goal, Hillary was the better candidate if only for her experience alone.
Early on in the debates I watched Obama closely. I wanted to know if I could support him. One of my dreams is to live long enough to see the USA elect a woman and non-Anglo to the Presidency.
But as I watched in the debates, and as I watched campaigning by Obama and Michelle, something was just lacking. Something was off.
So I started supporting Hillary and I am proud to say I voted for her in the CA primary.
I visit some blogs regularly and others sporadically. When I would comment about something or about my support of Hillary I was SHOCKED by the hate and vitriol. Maybe it is part a generational thing. But part of it is not. The hate and nastiness is vicious. I cannot describe.
Couple that with the negative campaign and the constant attacks on Hillary and the President (They are racist? You could say a lot of negatives about the Clintons. Racist is NOT one of them. McCarthy? For god's sake P-L-E-A-S-E!!!! Picking a fight for saying if you can't stand the heat of the kitchen... And they say women are too sensitive!!!!!!) and I am totally turned off.
And the sexist,misogynist behavior of the media and press corp, not to mention the all too obvious Obama support by MSNBC, (the leftie version of FOX.) Are they on the Obama payroll?
In the 60's I marched for civil rights and more, I was anti-war, I worked for women's rights, and I am a liberal Dem who has learned since McGovern that you need hard pragmatism to win, not hope. And no year is more important for Dems to win than this year after 8 years of Bush-Cheney-neo-cons and their assault on the Constitution.
Initially I would have supported any D against McCain. But after REPEATEDLY and over several MONTHS being called racist, dumb, stupid, bigoted, Archie Bunkerish, war mongering, a corporatists, hateful, insane, liar, demented, deceitful, myopic, old person, whitie, war mongerer, stooge, mindless, arrogant, mud-slinger, and treacherous to name just a few I have become angry at the Obama campaign and just plain fed up with their constant griping and complaining and blaming everything on Hillary. Attack her on issues not on personality and petty stuff like misspeaking on Bosnia. At least she has been there.
Over the course of this campaign as I get to know more about all the candidates the true leader is Clinton, evidenced by her repeatedly saying we will be unified for the November election and she will support whoever the nominee is. TRUE CLASS. I have yet to hear that from the Obama camp. That tells me pretty much all I need to know about the two candidates and who is Presidential material and who is not.
And after being beat up by Obama’s folk I really don’t fell like voting for him. I will take a page from Michelle Obama’s play-book on that one, “I will have to think about that.”

Adam

Julie, there's way too much to respond to there. So, just four quick comments:

- Click the dailykos link I posted above, and you will see evidence of all the things the Clinton camp has done that the Obama supporters are angry about. Is every one of the things they list there truly a major issue? No, not in my opinion. But just recognize that Obama supporters feel every bit as wronged and insulted as you do. It's hard to argue that the Clinton campaign hasn't gone negative in the last month.

- Obama's CAMPAIGN did not call you any of those things. I can't speak for all of his supporters, but neither can Obama. It's a bit unfair to get angry at Obama himself for a few crazy supporters.

- Obama has *repeatedly* and *consistently* stated that Hillary Clinton would be a much better president than John McCain. If you have "yet to hear that" from Obama, you must have not watched the last two debates, because he said exactly that. Hillary has been much more ambiguous on this front - while she has called for unity in November, she has compared McCain favorably to Obama many times.

- On a personal note, I followed something of a mirror image path to yours. I began with tentatively supporting Richardson, but when it became clear he was going to lose, I slowly gravitated toward Obama. My reason was basically the same as yours - I thought he had the best chance in November. I had two reasons. First, he doesn't inspire hatred from the Republican base and distaste from independents the way Hillary does. Second, I see Hillary as vulnerable to the same attacks Kerry faced on Iraq, while Obama can more easily turn the presidential election into a referendum on the war.

Adam

Julie, there's way too much to respond to there. So, just four quick comments:

- Click the dailykos link I posted above, and you will see evidence of all the things the Clinton camp has done that the Obama supporters are angry about. Is every one of the things they list there truly a major issue? No, not in my opinion. But just recognize that Obama supporters feel every bit as wronged and insulted as you do. It's hard to argue that the Clinton campaign hasn't gone negative in the last month.

- Obama's CAMPAIGN did not call you any of those things. I can't speak for all of his supporters, but neither can Obama. It's a bit unfair to get angry at Obama himself for a few crazy supporters.

- Obama has *repeatedly* and *consistently* stated that Hillary Clinton would be a much better president than John McCain. If you have "yet to hear that" from Obama, you must have not watched the last two debates, because he said exactly that. Hillary has been much more ambiguous on this front - while she has called for unity in November, she has compared McCain favorably to Obama many times.

- On a personal note, I followed something of a mirror image path to yours. I began with tentatively supporting Richardson, but when it became clear he was going to lose, I slowly gravitated toward Obama. My reason was basically the same as yours - I thought he had the best chance in November. I had two reasons. First, he doesn't inspire hatred from the Republican base and distaste from independents the way Hillary does. Second, I see Hillary as vulnerable to the same attacks Kerry faced on Iraq, while Obama can more easily turn the presidential election into a referendum on the war.

PaseoDelMar

If the Obamabots are the ones who are supposedly going to help "move this country forward" with their cheers of "yes we can" then I fear for our country. The "youth vote" are all Milenials, the most coddled and spoiled generation in history. They also obviously are lacking in an basic understanding of civics and civility. Anyone who thinks they will rise up and suddenly be responsible citizens, contributing their time to their community is truly dreaming. These are kids still being supported or subsidized by their parents!
They are also the bulk of the uninsured. They refuse to look at Obama's associations or his lies or his racist belief system! They are the AM=merican Idol generation, if they could text in their vote, they would. Hillary reminds them of their Mother, the one trying to get them to be responsible in their own lives. I am saddened by their hate and vitriol. That coupled with the constant negative Clinton coverage vs the over the top fawning over Obama on all the TV channels, they are being duped and they don't care, they just wanna WIN. They all sound like little republicans

john

I am an independent.I voted for Biil Clinton his first run for president. To many independant voters, the Clintons and the Bushes represent different sides othe same coin. Thier corruption and incompetence are destroying this country.I found myself hoping the Democratic party would put forward a truely independant candidate. Has everyone forgotten the corruption and how nasty and vindictive the Clintons were? When political discussions come up, we are all amazed ----- where does this idea that Hillary is entitled to the presidency come from? As outsiders, we are amazed at the negative and self-righteous attitude of her supporters.
We are grey headed --- Hillary Clinton is a light weight in my mothers prescence.
Many of us have learned our lesson and will never again vote for a Clinton or Bush.

D. Cupples

John,

You state some opinions as though they're fact. It's you're right to do so, but specifics would be more persuasive.

I think the Clintons are a mixed bag (positives and negatives).

Barack Obama is a similarly mixed bag. He just did a good job of persuading people that he comes to politics with clean hands and would clean up the Washington game.

Unfortunately, as we've gotten to know him better, we've seen that some of his fundamental campaign claims don't gel with reality or history.

For example, he said that he won't take oil-company-connected money. He has. (I covered it last week, with links, here: http://bucknakedpolitics.typepad.com/buck_naked_politics/2008/04/obama-took-oil.html.)

Right after he declared his candidacy, he said that he wouldn't take lobbyist money. That was right after he'd collected more than $1 million in lobbyist donations. I covered that in the same post linked above.

Also covered in that post is that at least one of his fund raisers told a lobbyist that Obama wouldn't take the lobbyist's money but WOULD take the lobbyist's spouse's money.

Sen. Obama has repeatedly claimed credit for legislation (in U.S. Senate and Illinois legislature) that he had very little to do with. I covered that here (with links): http://bucknakedpolitics.typepad.com/buck_naked_politics/2008/03/while-a-trip-to.html

If you want to see more examples (with links), see right sidebar Election 2008: primaries. I've been covering disconnects between what Obama says and does since late January or early February.

It's your right to place your faith in any candidate you choose. I hope that you won't end up disappointed.

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